19: Leadership, Introversion and Career Advancement with Rob Deptford

Chad:               Welcome back to the show. Today. I get to speak with Robert Deptford on how to become a leader in your own life and how to navigate career transitions. He’s gonna share with us some. He’s just a great guy who really cares about people and has a lot of wisdom on how to find fulfillment in your life and in your career and how to ask yourself really great questions. We’re going to go over some things today regarding how to have a little interview with yourself. If you’re making a career transition, if you’re trying to move up into leadership, if you’re trying to discover what your strengths are and where you belong in your career and in your life so that you can contribute to the world and the way that you want to in a way that makes you happy. He’s going to give us some really great tips today on how to do that and how to have an and how to ask ourself just the right questions to be able to coach ourselves through that process.

Chad:               Robert is an online career and leadership coach based in Calgary, Alberta, so he currently enjoys coaching new or aspiring managers who haven’t stepped into developing their leadership skills and also mid career professionals who want to bring a new life to a stagnant career. So if you’re feeling like you are not enjoying your current career, he helps people figure out how to choose something different than they can really enjoy at some point in his life. He lost his job and he drew. He drew on that experience and in order to create his new career where he is giving people coaching, he’s helped over 300 people compete for their next job. Figure out what their next job needs to be, your next career, pursue entrepreneurship, if that’s something they want or transition into retirement. As a husband and a parent, he is somebody who understands the pressures of managing both career and life commitments and he’s really good at helping people figure out how to find solutions to having a balanced life because in all honesty, in my opinion, you’re not very successful if you have lots of money and you have a thriving career, but your relationships are all out of order and you’re not enjoying time with your family and your friends and you just.

Chad:               Other aspects of your life are falling apart. That’s not success. We’re also going to discuss a little bit about the Gig economy in today’s episode and where things are heading regarding freelancing and he’s gonna share some insights on, on how many options are available because he works with a lot of people on career transitions. He helps people realize how many options there are to be able to totally customize your career these days. You can do anything and make money doing it and we’re going to discuss a little bit about that. So with that said, I welcome Rob Deptford to the show. Thanks. Uh, it’s a pleasure to be here. Yeah, I’m glad you’re here. Uh, I, I, I’m really excited to talk to you today about leadership and about how to find fulfillment in a career and how to find our place in this world because we all are on this journey trying to figure out where we fit in and where our strengths are and how we can contribute and give back. And I am curious to know about what your story is. You know, and that’s a vague term, you know, we all have millions of stories, right? But what story in your life led you to what you’re doing today regarding helping people in their career?

Rob:                 Well, there’s a potentially big answer to that question to tell you the truth, but you’re, I think my background is one that is, uh, that really exemplifies how many career paths tend to go these days. We don’t often see the long term sort of 30 or 35 year career in one location anymore or doing one particular job that’s just, it’s becoming less and less common. And uh, and so for me, I’ve, I’ve meandered through a number of things, um, are actually cut my teeth and radio news years ago and uh, and was a very, uh, a very short term journalist before getting involved in corporate communications work and marketing and a and eventually, uh, some, some coaching work as I was working for a little postsecondary institution, uh, up in a community called Edmonton here in Alberta where I’m at. And um, that was my first taste of career coaching and I was kind of in and out of that in positions that followed at that point of my career.

Rob:                 Um, but where the kind of the turning point was for me to take this on full time was I’ve been working at a university here in Calgary and working with young engineering students, really talented engineering students who had been identified as needing some leadership skill set, sort of infused into what it is they were learning in their engineering curriculum and uh, and that position was eliminated. I loved what I was doing and the position was eliminated and a and I ended up doing some more formal training and coaching and as it turned out, met some people who turned out to be future colleagues, um, in, uh, in career management and uh, any leadership development as well. So, um, it was just one of those things where there were pieces from each stop along my career path that I could kind of take with me moving forward. And then I was able to transition into doing this full time.

Chad:               That’s a lot of fun. So what do you enjoy most about what you’re helping people with right now?

Rob:                 You know, the reward in the business, I think for me is seeing people achieve that level of success that thereafter, whatever that might be a and when you’re working one to one with people, everybody has a different goal in mind or some individual idea of what it is they want to achieve at the end of our time together. And so when they do that, you know, when they, when you see the smile on their face and they recognize, you know, holy, you know, maybe they didn’t think they could achieve it to start with or maybe it felt so far away that it was a big stretch to get there and then they get there. And uh, and the reward is, is in that for me.

Chad:               Gotcha. Yeah. It’s a lot of, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing how fulfilling it is to watch people make choices and commit to actions that just totally pivot their life and being able to be a part of that and realizing, wow, like this person stepping into their power. And it’s really cool to see that. I’m sure you’ve had your own experience of stepping into your own power. I wanted to ask you about, um, you, you described yourself as an introverted speaker and I want you to explain a little bit about that because I, myself grew up huge introvert and always trying to avoid people. Not I don’t, I still consider myself an introvert and an extrovert now because I like connecting with people, but I, I still like having time for myself. I’m still very, like kind of reflective, but I love connecting with people now and I didn’t used to. I used to avoid people like crazy and it really held me back on my career for a long time. And so tell me a little bit about your story related to, to that.

Rob:                 Yeah, it’s interesting because I think I was confused about that for a lot of years and um, and there were several points in my career where we would do professional development sessions and a consultant would come in and we’d do those assessments. A Myers Briggs was, is the typical one where you. Yeah, determine are you an introvert or an extrovert? And I’m no expert in those things, but I would do them and I would consistently show up either closer to the middle of the scale or, or leaning towards the introvert side. And um, and I was kind of, it was confusing for me because I’ve always done work where I had to do presentations or I had to be somehow involved with, with large groups of people. And there was a, uh, there was one of those professional development sessions. We had an excellent facilitator who asked me the question, how do you recharge?

Rob:                 And that was kind of the light bulb moment for me where I went, you know, I, it’s, it’s an energy drain for me to, to, to speak and to give presentations and to be in a crowd and I need to have that time on my own. I’m not quiet time like you described in order to recharge the batteries. And uh, and the facilitator said, you know, that’s the indicator right there, that you truly are an introvert. There should be no confusion in that because when you think about it in terms of energy management, that’s a, that’s a hallmark of an introvert is needing to have that recharge time on your own. So when you look at, you know, how am I managing that and, and applying that in terms of the commitments to speaking and working with other people. Well, it’s just a matter of knowing, okay, if I’m going to be in a crowd, it’s not going to be long and I’m going to be out of gas, but it doesn’t mean I can’t do it.

Rob:                 And we tend to avoid those situations where we have crowds or where we have to get on a stage or whatever it is because we know that that’s going to suck our energy. But it doesn’t mean that we can’t gain that skillset if we learn how to manage that energy. So that’s been kind of the focus for me as well. Can I, can I get myself in a situation where, uh, I can be fully charged before I have to go out onto a stage or into a crowd I can perform and I can do really well. And then I know afterwards I need to go find some, some way to recharge. Again,

Chad:               that’s a really great perspective on it that you’ve, uh, it’s because, uh, you know, all growing up, I would, people would speak his introversion as a negative thing as the thing you’re not supposed to be, don’t be so shy or so interfered and they would attach shyness, introversion, which I don’t like attached on the tube because I see shyness as just having low self esteem, which I did. Um, whereas you can be introverted and be very confident you can be introverted and have high self esteem. And, um, but like you said, as you’re defining it as it really does drain me as I’m, as I’m speaking in front of a crowd and, and, but I can still learn the skillset of knowing how to do that. And I used to use my introversion as an excuse to not learn the skillset. I don’t have to learn how to talk to people, I don’t have to learn how to connect, I don’t have to learn how to speak because I’m introverted. But then I realized without those skills I wasn’t going to achieve my goals that I had in my career. And so I, yeah, I really appreciate how you’ve kind of separated it, that this is just an energy thing, that the way I’m managing my energy, the way that the, the effect of speaking to people, how it, how it, how it plays on my energy. And if I’m aware of that, I can, I can, uh, work with that so that I can actually get out there and speak and do it just fine.

Rob:                 Yeah. Well, and, and we have that fear of getting out there and doing those things because of that knowledge that it drains our energy. Um, but it doesn’t mean that if we can’t past that we can’t develop the skill set. And that’s something that once I kind of realized that I went, okay, you know, I can manage this if you just have to be very conscious of it. And so if you have a goal to get out there and do things like public speaking and you know, it’s out of your natural comfort zone, well we just have to stretch and be prepared to stretch a little bit and yeah, it’s going to be uncomfortable for a little while, but I’m at a point now where I do it enough that it’s fun, right? And, and, and I know that I have a system to manage my energy level and I can make it work well for me.

Chad:               And isn’t that, isn’t that something that you see it as fun because doing stuff like that and speaking and connecting with people in that way seems like the opposite of fun for me for awhile because I’m like, well, I’m not an extrovert. So that’s really not fun at all. I didn’t think I could ever. But then I thought my met my next phase of my development was, okay, I’m going to gain this skill so that I can achieve certain goals that I have, but it’s still not going to be fun. And I noticed the same thing that you noticed or where it was like, wait, this is actually is fun because now I’m doing it in my own way. And it. Yeah, it makes it fun.

Rob:                 Yeah. Well, I’m even doing something like this, right? You’re meeting new people and you’re having a, an interesting discussion with these new people. It’s not something that you might’ve jumped out years ago, right? But you’re doing it and you’re doing a good job of it. Um, and uh, and you’re comfortable. It’s clear, right? It’s clear that you’ve had some practice at it.

Chad:               And I am having a lot of fun with that. I never in a million years would have thought that I would have hosted a podcast and interviewed people. Um, it’s amazing what you can do when you decide to gain a new skill set and realize that, hey, I might actually have fun with this. And like, and I now I am, I’m having a ton of fun just just interviewing people and having a podcast and I never thought in a million years that I would have fun doing something like that. So it goes to show that we just need to try some things like don’t, don’t wait until you feel that it’s fun and then start developing the skill. Just try it, start working on the skill and you’ll be surprised at what becomes fun. You never thought it’d be fun before.

Rob:                 Yeah. And, and what’s great is, you know, for the other introverts out there who might be watching or listening is people like you and me can set this example right? Like it is possible. And so there are examples to follow that that gives some validation that they can actually achieve that goal if it’s something that they’re interested in.

Chad:               Yeah, definitely. Thanks for sharing that and sharing that part of your story with us so that anyone out there who is an introvert who maybe has some insecurities about that and realize that there’s nothing to be insecure about, that you can claim your introversion and still learn any skill that you want to learn and be able to put that through your introverted energy and yeah, still have a lot of fun. Yeah.

Rob:                 No, I still get nervous when I go on stage by the way. Yeah, yeah. Well I think a lot of us do, but,

Chad:               but what do you do? What do you do with that energy, that nervous energy like that so that it doesn’t defeat you or doesn’t shut you down?

Rob:                 You know, I think a lot of it for me comes in having some confidence in the knowledge of the material I have to deliver. Um, and so, you know, if it’s a brand new presentation or a brand new speech I have to give, then it’s a little more challenging for me. Um, if, uh, if it’s something, if it’s a topic that I’ve been able to deliver before and I’ve had some experience with it and I can kind of anticipate what some of the questions might be, there’s a comfort level there so it’s easier to manage those nerves. Um, but, uh, but a lot of it is just, do I know the material, do I feel comfortable with that? I know the material well enough that I can go out there and deliver.

Chad:               Definitely that’s important to be prepared in that way. And it’s this the same way that I, you know, I prepare for these interviews. Not that I’m reading off questions, but I’ve prepared despite, you know, knowing a little bit about you knowing a little bit about my audience and what they’re wanting. So there is preparation there so there’s still room for being able to have a, I guess an impromptu conversation, I’m sure even in speaking there’s room for that, but being prepared and makes it easier to then almost go off book.

Rob:                 Yeah. And uh, and I’d been there in my early days of doing speaking gigs. It was easy to get going down a rabbit hole, right, to get off track and then you have to find a way to get back on topic. Um, but now the way I approach speaking is some people will have a script and they like to read word for word, but I can’t do that anymore. I’m going to have talking points are kind of like what we do for, for these kinds of interviews, have some talking points and let’s just see where it leads now. How about conversation and see what happens.

Chad:               Definitely. I want to talk with you a little bit about career transitions because I’ve been through a career transition and I know lots of people that have been through career transitions and I can be a very stressful thing. Um, what are some tips you can share with us on how to navigate that transition? Maybe like, where to start. Like does it, do you find that people typically decide they want to change careers before they know what they’re changing too? Or do you find that more people know what they want and then they decide to change the or is there kind of a mix?

Rob:                 Oh, well I think there is a mix. A lot of people that I’ve worked with recently in my local market have been actually displaced, so they’ve been sort of forced into the reactionary situation of career transition. And uh, and that’s a tough thing, right? That’s a, that’s a really difficult experience to go through when it’s unplanned and unexpected and all of a sudden you’re kind of shoved into this situation where you now have to make some serious decisions. And uh, and step one in that case is really, you’ve got to take some time to grieve your loss. Um, grieve your loss and, and do what you need to do to kind of get yourself in the head space to be able to shift gears and that can take different amounts of time for everybody. And, you know, I’ll tell people, take a vacation or, or, you know, go sit in your hot tub or whatever, whatever you need to do to relax and kind of process.

Rob:                 And um, and then when you’re ready to come back and start moving forward, then we can start strategizing about what’s next for people who are more on the proactive side. A lot of times what I see is they’re kind of stuck, right? Like they’ve been doing something for awhile and they know it’s time to make a change or make a move. They maybe would like to advance a little bit, but they don’t know where to start. And it’s pretty comfortable to just stay put right, to just stay on the hamster wheel because the routine is easy and it’s hard. It’s hard to make a change. It’s hard to be proactive about that. Um, so, you know, for them it’s really about, okay, let’s make a decision about what is next. Let’s really clearly identify what the next steps should be for you. And then let’s figure out, let’s figure out what that should be based on things like what do you value, what are your strengths, what, uh, what environments do you thrive in?

Rob:                 What kind of people do you work? Well, in delight large organizations or small organizations, what aligns with what, with what makes you your best, right? What were the kinds of things that would put you in a position to be at you’re your best self or at your most productive self and then we can start to look at careers that might match up with that, um, and, and zero in on some things and you know, the, the, the tools come afterwards, the things like the resume and the interview skills and all of that eventually come along afterwards when we know what we’re aiming at and when, when we know what our message is, but it’s a, it’s a strategy, right? And it does take some fluff.

Chad:               Definitely. Well, that’s helpful because it sounds like there’s just a couple of things that, I mean those are very simple things figuring out, um, you know, do I want to work for a large organization, a small organization and sometimes it helps to have somebody in the outside just asking us those questions because we almost get so overwhelmed in the, in the, in the web of it all that we don’t just start asking a couple of simple questions to just get the process going of thinking about what do I want to do next and I know I’m not happy here, but let’s just start narrowing this down. I think sometimes we get hung up on just asking yourself one question, which is usually, well, what’s, what’s my dream career or what, what is going to be rather than just start, like you said, just start narrowing down different aspects of it and then eventually you’ll get to answering that question, but it’s not as overwhelming.

Rob:                 Well, that the idea of that single question, what is my dream career or my dream job? Or you know, what do you want to be when you grow up? Myself as a parent, I’m guilty of using that question with my kids and it’s a terrible question, right? Because it it the. The way it’s. The way it’s formulated is it’s trying to narrow you into a single selection into a label or a, a certain definition of what that job should be and I think we should really be asking rather than what do you want to be or what do you want to do? We shouldn’t be asking things like who do we want to become? What kind of impacts do we want to create? What kind of legacy do we want to leave as a result of our actions? And it puts us in a very different frame of mind. It puts us in a space where we can think about, okay, I’m now focused on my results or my outcome, how I achieved that outcome might come about in different ways, but I know exactly what I want to be able to achieve.

Chad:               And that also sets yourself up for being able to, like you said, in the beginning of our conversation how more and more people are not sticking with one thing for 30 years and then retiring and that job with that company. When you focus more on the results like you said, and focus more on the outcome, the legacy, then hey, you might shift careers a couple of times, but it’s all deliberate and it’s all necessary and it’s all a part of your journey. Or you might just customize your own career that you couldn’t find on a job search website because it’s some kind of thing that isn’t just a typical job that has a title that everyone knows about where it starts opening up your creativity to realize where we’re in a world where we can pretty much make money doing anything you could. You could figure out how to convert some hobby or some talent into, into your own little business, into, into. There’s so many ways that we can, uh, customize our career these days. That I’m glad that you brought that up because I think that helps us to think outside the box a little bit and that may involve working for our company, but your role with them within that company might expand beyond what even they thought and so it’s interesting what is possible when we have that creative mindset of like how, how can we. Yeah. Customization I guess.

Rob:                 Well, yeah, and you know this because you’ve done freelance work, but it’s the gig economy is not going away. This is something that’s growing and there are advantages to that, but when you, when you see like in my own market, when I see full time permanent roles vanishing and then I see contract workers being brought in to to, to continue to do the work, you can see that there’s an advantage in that for the company because they can better manage their cashflow. So how do we as as job seekers are as proactive career managers be prepared for that and adapt to this changing market and you look around and the growth of things like, you know, Uber is a, is probably the biggest example people use of this idea of Gig work. The other side of that is there advantages for the people doing the work and they look out and it’s opt in work for them.

Rob:                 Right? So if I’ve got a whole ton of commitments in my life and I don’t want to work today, well with a, with a Gig like Uber, I don’t have to work today, I work tomorrow when it works for me. And so there are tremendous advantages in that too. And so there the way things are evolving, it’s not only good for employers to be looking at that kind of Gig or freelance model, but it actually is good for, for people who are willing to adapt to that model because they can then manage other social pressures.

Chad:               Yeah, definitely. And I can imagine that in that situation. Well, for me, I mean, one of the main reasons why I chose to freelance and will always be my company will continue to grow and uh, I imagine it’s not always going to just be a me just working for me, but I’ve always been, you know, it was very much a lifestyle choice that I wanted to spend more time with my family. I have a two year old son and I, I wanted to be able to decide, hey, I’m going to take the morning off to spend some time with my wife and son and I’ll work a tomorrow at a different time instead in order to kind of get what I need to get done, done. Um, and being able to have that flexibility and uh, and yeah, I, I, I, I, I enjoy that kind of thing. It’s not for everyone. Some people enjoy more of the consistent, okay, somebody else just gives me my schedule, but at least I have kind of a, a, a, a predictable situation. But it gives us a lot of options and it can be scary to have so many different options, which I can imagine why people probably come to you for your services because it’s helpful to have somebody help us narrow in on what we really want because there are so many options today.

Rob:                 Yeah, absolutely. And listen, I’m not suggesting that everybody should go out and become a freelancer by any stretch. I think it’s a tremendous option, but you’re right, it comes down to what do you value? And there are those, a lot of us prefer that predictability, right? And having that structure of a traditional type of job. And that’s terrific. Um, I just think that we have to be prepared to have the right skillset for even that type of framework, right? Because it is a framework. I’m going forward into the future of work because there is going to be a lot faster pace, uh, in terms of how things evolve in the workplace. So we have to be prepared to adopt.

Chad:               Definitely. And how can we adapt as leaders? Can you give us some tips on how to, how to become a more effective leader and what does that mean? What does that mean to you to be a leader? Does that mean that you’re managing a team or can you be a leader in other ways? Talk to us a little bit about that.

Rob:                 Yeah. Uh, so is it managing a team? Well, it might be or it might not be, and I think this is where there’s some confusion around the term leadership itself. Um, you know, I always say not all bosses are good leaders and not all good leaders or bosses. And one of the things I think that that has kind of clouded the, the definition a little bit for people as companies have looked at their traditional management structure where they might have supervisors, managers, directors, whatever, and they’ve changed some of the language in those titles and they’ve, they’ve made them things like team leads or team team leaders. And so people look at that and go, well, you know, it’s, the responsibilities are the same. I’m still a supervisor, but my title’s a little bit different. And so now I’m a leader because I have this leader that, that in my title, and it’s not how it works.

Rob:                 Um, you know, really leadership is, is a separate skill set and it’s a, it’s a collection of characteristics that you can develop to, to really create an environment of trust where if you are a manager, people are going to be wanting to follow you, right? Because if they don’t trust you, they’re not gonna follow you. But if you’re not a manager, it doesn’t matter because it helps you create impact in other ways that you value. So you don’t have to be a leader of people. You can be a leader of an organization, you can be a leader of a, you can be a leader in yourself just doing things for your community, right? You don’t have to have a group of people who are underneath you.

Chad:               How can we be more of a leader of our own life? Because he opened up a, a, a loop there that I think is interesting regarding how we, we often think of leadership as I’m the manager. I’m the boss over this group of people. But how can we be a leader over our own life and how does that affect our ability to someday actually lead other people as well and influence them in some way?

Rob:                 Well, I think you have to understand what leadership is for you. And this is one of the interesting things about leadership is we can all create our own slightly different definition of what it is. Sure. You can look up, you can google it and you can get some pretty good solid definitions, but um, but there’s some latitude there, some room to move depending on what your strengths are. So I think it’s, it’s identifying what for you are your strengths and what can you do to leverage those strengths to develop yourself as a leader? Um, and, and what’s important to you, right? I go back to what I was talking about earlier. What kind of legacy do you want to leave or what kind of impact do you want to have? And then how can you leverage those strengths you’ve identified a in order to create that impact. And that, that to me is, is a good start in identifying, you know, am I going to be able to move into that leadership type of role

Chad:               and with strengths. Um, it’s interesting that you, uh, we, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve talked about that a few times with identifying strengths as part of the process with career transition and identifying strengths with becoming a leader. What role does it play when I’m going to kind of bring it full circle with what we talked about at the beginning of our conversation with how me and you both have been developing and have developed strengths with speaking, with connecting with people that we didn’t have before. So how do we break out of that thinking of I was born with a certain amount of strengths or gifts and once I discovered those, then I’ve found my purpose and I’m good versus what strengths do I want to develop in order to achieve my goal or my legacy? Talk a little bit about that.

Rob:                 Yeah. So that’s kind of the nature versus nurture argument in some ways. Right? And um, and I, I think that, you know, we do have some, some innate abilities, I think that there is that to consider, but at the end of the day, there’s nothing we can’t do, right? It’s just a, I think it’s identifying again, our big picture goal and when you know that when you have some clarity on that, then you can start to figure out, well, what do I need to get there? And you can kind of work your way backwards. And in coaching we have a lot of coaches will use their foundation for planning questions. And the first one is what do you want? The second one is why is it important to you? The third one is how would you know if you got it right? And it really, it helps you to sort of zero in on the characteristics of that end goal. And when you get those three things together, then you can ask. The fourth planning question was how can I get it? How, how can I get there? The action piece, um, and uh, and so that really can help somebody keep on track, I think, and break out of a shell or move forward in any way that they desire.

Chad:               That’s really helpful. That really puts it in perspective. Those four questions because it gets you thinking about how we do have these innate abilities. We have these innate talents and strengths and let’s discover what those are, but then think about what you want and you know, what legacy you wanna leave, what impact do you want to have, what do you want, what goal do you have? And then what skills do I need to develop that I don’t currently have in order for me to achieve that, to become the person, just like you mentioned at the beginning of this conversation that I need to be right because we, we, we grow into our goals and we become the type of person that now can achieve that goal. And uh, so that’s, that’s helpful that you bring that up. Is there anything else you wanted to say about that?

Rob:                 Well, look, whether it’s becoming a better leader or, or making a career change or whatever you want to do, one of the things that can be helpful for people I think is, um, think about the people you admire. I mean, we all have, I think we all have people that we look up to or that we are, whether it’s somebody you know or somebody on television or you know, whatever it happens to be. Think about those people you admire and imagine as if they were your mentor, right? What are the characteristics that those people have that you would like to adopt into your own style to help you move forward? And what would those people tell you? What would they say to you? What advice would they give to you? And it gets you thinking again in a new sort of perspective on setting those goals for yourself and, and helps you to move forward and step into that, that kind of, um, persona or, or leadership level or whatever it is that you’re not.

Chad:               That’s helpful. Thank you. I think that helps a lot when we think about the people that we admire in our mentors because it helps us almost see a bit of who we want to be and maybe what’s already a part of us and it can, uh, it’s, it’s almost a reflection of who we really almost at the higher self that we see in ourselves. Um, along that process as we are discovering strings we already have developing strengths that we want to develop to achieve a certain goal. At what point do we decide maybe that’s a skill I don’t want to develop, but I’d love to hire somebody who has that skill or I’d love to collaborate with somebody because obviously we can’t do any everything, right? We can’t become an expert at everything. So at what point do we start to decide to delegate off certain skills that we don’t want to develop for ourselves because we’re like, I think I’m, uh, I’m getting full. I mean, how do you, how do you manage that and what do you suggest for people?

Rob:                 I think, um, yeah, so it’s like, I don’t like to do my taxes right? So there’s a, and you know, you as a entrepreneur yourself, you have things that you’re strong at and things that you’d probably delegate as well. Um, so, you know, I think it’s a question of looking at where are you getting the best return on your investment of time and um, so I would never spend time doing my taxes because it’s, I could do it for, for days and days and days. Whereas somebody who does that professionally, it could get it done in a flash and I can pay them whatever I need to pay them to do it and it’s done. Um, so it’s those things that you know, the things that you’re good at or the things that I think you need to focus on. And when you recognize that there are things that maybe are not efficient at and you’re not interested in, so you’re not going to be motivated to learn, then you probably need to consider, okay, well how else can I attack this stuff? That needs to happen anyway, but I don’t want to learn it and I don’t want to do it. And it’s not a good return on investment of my time.

Chad:               That’s a great, that’s a really great way to evaluate that. Just asking yourself, what am I actually interested in learning this? Because yeah, we can, like you said, we can learn anything. We can gain any skill we want, we can gain the skill of becoming really good at doing taxes. But I’m just like, ew, I don’t want to gain the skill of being really fast and good at doing that. So I’d rather have somebody else help me with that. And so that’s a really. I think that’s a really good question to just ask yourself, do I see myself enjoying actually doing this aspect of what needs to get done to achieve my goal or. Because yeah, if I don’t enjoy it, I won’t get a return. It’s just going to drain a lot more energy than it’s going to give me and it’s worth just getting help. So. Yeah, absolutely. So is there anything else that you want to share with us before we end this conversation for today?

Rob:                 Probably talk for hours. We’ve got a lot in common know. So look, I, I, I hope this helps a few people if people are kind of tuning in, I’m wondering a little bit about leadership or career development or whatever. I hope there is some benefit to some people. I know you’ve had a lot of other great guests on your show to that overlap on some of the stuff. So it’s been a terrific conversation and uh, you know, if people decide they want to reach out to me, I certainly welcomed people to do that.

Chad:               Definitely. And where can we learn more about you and, and, and can you tell us a little bit about what kind of services you provide? How can we connect with you and if somebody wants to work with you, what do they do? Where do they go?

Rob:                 Well, the easiest thing probably is just to go to my website which is forgeaheadcoaching.com and people can figure out how to touch base with me there. Um, and um, yeah, just depending on what people want to do a, we’ll set up an chat typically

Chad:               and talk about goals and where people want to go and what kinds of plans we can set up for them and we, we’ll just go from there. Great. Well thanks so much robin. It’s been a great conversation and I really enjoyed what we’ve learned from you about how to, uh, you taught us a lot about some just good questions to ask ourself and how to evaluate what we need to do to transition into a career to become a leader of our own life. And I really appreciate what you share with us today. So thank you so much for being on the show and I’m sure we will have more conversations and have you back in the future because there’s.

Rob:                 Yeah, I could talk to you all day, so anytime. Chad, I appreciate that.